Well since the highest achievement of our Glorious Emperor Palpatine, was the creation of the Empire. I believe that we should install Fleet Ranking Insignia as a sign of our ties to the imperial order. So I support this proposition, and stand by the articles that enshrine the Imperial command structure.

This is a valiant Idea and should be implemented Poste Haste.

One thing that I'd like to point out... the Emperor was a civilian politician who commanded the military, as much as a Commander in Chief would. He was the figurehead leader of the military, not the actual leader. In all sorts of fiction we see evidence like "The Grand Admirals were part of the Emperor's scheme to bring the military under his direct control, so were the death stars" and stuff like that. Linking the Imperial Forces to the Emperor is akin to linking the British Armed Forces to Queen Elizabeth, somewhat true, but equally false.

Also look at what the Jedi were in the Star Wars universe... they were not members of the Military. Vader was the Emperor's Henchman, not the Commander of his forces, not the Battlegroup Commander for Fleet IV or whatever. I think linking the Brotherhood with a military insignia of any sort would be cheapening us, if anything the Brotherhood would be the masters of a normal armed forces unit, not the grunts within it.

One Dark Jedi would be at least equivalent of a Platoon of stormtroopers, so how the hell would we rank that? I think the fact that we're ranked DARK JEDI means we're above and beyond being ranked along with the Imperial Forces. Additionally I note the failed experiment with the Trident Strike Force... we don't need a ImpForces equivalent here in the Brotherhood, we're beyond that.

I think finishing your battlegroup listings, and assigning certain people (maybe make it an application process for those who really want to be officers) of roleplaying units such as Platoons and Spacers would be more than we need, and not much more than ID Line fluffing to begin with.

We left the military BEHIND when we left the Hammer. Leave it in the past where it belongs.

What we often see if the common problem... we're associated with the Empire because we hate the Light Jedi who are associated with the New Republic... the enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing... but personally I hate the Empire just as much as I hate the New Republic, we should be creating our own political order in OUR image, not the Emperor's.

-Yacks

Im with yacks on this one. I may love the Empire but making the DB a 'military' faction isnt something I like. Having the Sith and Obelisk use military doctrine would work. Not to mention that I think our fleet wouldnt be ALL jedi after all. The engineers and regular workers could have military ranks but as Jedi we ourselves should not. We would ofcourse command the 'regulars' but other than that I dont see us as being a military faction. Its kinda like Yoda commanding the clones. He wasnt in the military but they addressed him as Sir and followed his orders to the letter. Same with Vader. The Jedi were not bound by military law and the chain of command. They might have been "asked' to do things by generals and admirals but they were never commanded to do so. So no i dont think we need military ranks really.

Gonna have to go with Yacks and Sykes on that one.
Though Palpatine did his part to 'sort of' intertwine the idea of Jedi and the military, we have come passed that.

Of course, there is always the idea of getting more involved with our Allies as a 'military wing' but it would still leave the Dark Jedi as an associate - not a military force by rank, structure and assignment. As was noted, the Jedi are supposed to 'outclass' the standard trooper by a considerable degree, so, in a sense it might be demeaning.

just my $.02

The fact that were planing an Elite Sith Flight Squadron is a great idea and the fact that the Sith Orders structure is gonna be rebuilt is the best thing that could happen ( cause im tired of being called an Obelisk trooper ).
As far as a military structure with in the DB of non-Jedis might be a good idea, some members might not want to be Dark Jedis they might prefer to be Imperial Officers Instead so I would have a poll on that one.
As for the Great Jedi War bring it on! RAIDONER is ready!!!!!!!
He He He.......

Umm... the Sith Order restructure has nothing to do with you being an Obelisk Trooper. The current database just doesnt fully support multi-order houses, so that issue will be solved with the Rebirth site.

As for adding a unique military faction in the DB - I think that's a horrible idea. It would just be a crappy rip off of an already crappy system used by the EH.

As for actually using Military ranks, etc - there really is no need as we're all Dark Jedi first. We already have ranks, we really dont need more.

Do we really need more fluff added to the brotherhood?? arent our exsisting ranks/positions enough? :P

im going to have to agree whole heartedly with Yacks on this one.

In my opinion, if we want or need military rank, it should at best be an honorary rank depending on your Dark Jedi rank and position. Essentially, the leaders of the Brotherhood and its Clans need to have a formal authority over the support troops assigned to them, thus they should have an appropriate rank (on the fictional side of things). This would enable them to wear the appropriate uniform when such is desired and roleplay in these surroundings.

In this system, a Battle Team Leader would probably have access to a Wing or Company of troops (100 men under his command) and should thus be a Lt. / Lt. Cmdr (naval) or Captain / Major (army) with any of those under his command able to occupy junior officer or cadet positions during training.

A Quaestor / Aedile would have access to a Batallion and a status of Commander / Lt. Colonel. A Proconsul would translate to a Captain / Colonel and a Consul to a Commodore / Brigadier General. Dark Council members would occupy ranks in the Admirality and Generality as per their status (the SHW and OHC occupying the highest command position over the DB Space and Ground forces respectively and the KHP overseeing the Intelligence components). Other positions would be assigned by demand, e.g. the Headmaster would be co-responsible for the training regiments and probably rank as a Brigadier or Major General in this function.

However: None of this would ever appear in an ID line. It can appear on the RPG character sheet and would solely be a roleplaying tool attached to the characters with promotions being conferred within the RPG, not within any daily duty. It would also be purely optional - however a member bearing a military rank would also be required to roleplay it appropriately. Even an Admiral Xanos Zorrixor would not be addressed as Admiral within the DB except when he is functioning as such in a roleplaying session.

Comment on SWG

For new players to the game, the DJB Guild within the game will help you in anyway possible. And i'm sure, in ways, they will lend credits (money), resources, armor, weapons, other items to aid the success of people's chosen profession/s. I for one know the Guild has grown largely in the past 6 months, and is stable enough for new members to experience easier game play. With many members of fighting and crafting professions, new members should have no problem gaining combat XP and/or crafting XP. Experience the world of Star Wars Galaxies, and be sure to be to be apart of the experience before the new expansion is released. Take my word, it takes time and effort to earn credits in the game once grasping the basis of a profession, and you don't want to join after the Expansion and have to wait weeks for a space vehicle while everyone else is flying around.

I'll make mine short and sweet. I basically agree with Yacks, but there is one point I'd like to put forth. It might be something that could be taken into the roleplaying game, but honestly, as a Dark Jedi, the only "official" control I need over any regular troops is the fact that I'm a Dark Jedi. Anyone who doesn't like my rule can either talk to my lightsaber, or "feel the Force," quite literally. I'd have to agree that adding in military shite in any way would basically be like trying what the TSF tried unsuccessfully to do, as was stated.

I also agree that the Dark Brotherhood is not a military faction. We are Dark Jedi and more of a religious group. While we already have ranks - which are like belts in martial arts... they show our skill, not our command power necessarily.

I also had fun as an officer in the TIE Corps, but I must say I kept the two ideas seperate. An officer and a Jedi. The Dark Brotherhood is a collection of powerful force wielders and not more or less equals that are divided by level of absolute authority. We band together for our own personal power more than a collective purpose.

Of course... I'm a Krath and you might think that fits my Order and not the Sith or Obelisk... but it is up to you ;)

I happen to agree with Yacks.

Well it seems everyone actually shares my personal views.

I too prefer the idea of not restoring any military connections, it was simply an idea I thought I'd raise to see what the general membership thought.

I think the main reason behind my beliefs has been mentioned a few times: that we are Dark Jedi and above the military. I personally see even the lowliest Acolyte as outranking most ordinary military officers. As far as I am concerned, if the Sith or Obelisk want to do something with the regular Brotherhood forces- they do it.

I agree strongly with another point- if we made, say, a Quaestor a Colonel, it would- technically- mean any regular officer above him would "outrank" him, which would be wrong. After all, a Quaestor, somebody who is at least a Warrior, Templar or Priest, would have more than enough authority to tell even the most experienced admiral or general what to do.

The only thing I partially accepted, was similar to what Kaiann outlined- having more of "honourary ranks". Kind of like how the Jedi were Generals in the Clone Wars, you might have Consuls functioning as the Commodores of a Clan Battlegroup or something.

Still... I'm glad everyone seems to agree. That saves me having to think up a system for the Sith Holocron, as I can go with my preferred approach of the Dark Jedi simply outranking everyone.

After all, the leader of a Clan Battlegroup is the Consul- thats the position, Consul, eg. Not Battlegroup Commander Bloodfyre, but Consul Bloodfyre.

Bad, military, bad.

Simple as that I must say.

I think honorary military ranks such as Kaiann and Goat outlined woud be a system that would work out fine, but actual ranks would be unnecessary.

And as for Raidoner's suggestion of another organization of "non-Jedi." This is the Dark JEDI Brotherhood, therefore implying that everyone in the group is a Jedi.