Sarin you can't call the Society of Envoys a failure or blame it for the poor retention figures, its a bit like blaming your reception staff because people don't like your hotel. In the time I was KCB I saw great work from Envoys in each of the Clans, both in greeting new members and sending them information about the DB and encouraging them to be active.

However if the activities they're guiding people toward aren't encouraging them to stay and do them and the work isn't supported at later levels in their progression by keeping people interested then to be honest as Envoys we probably were wasting our time even the best salesman can't sell something people don't want to buy.

Um. Not to be negative, but...yes they can. I'm a salesman, and I made people pay for stuff well above its regular price. And I suck at my job. Heh. =/

I'm sure Sarin didn't make his assertion lightly. Some envoys are good at their jobs, and some aren't. However, as it's an Envoy's job to make sure new members get a good start and progress nicely within their respective units, you cannot ignore the fact that the statistics don't speak well for them. Maybe the idea of an Envoy is good, but the way it's structured is just ineffective? Whatever the kink in the plan (heh, kink!), it's obviously not getting us the desired results.

Then again, it could be that a lot of the new sign-ups just lose their interest after the first week. I don't doubt that a large majority of the new membership are in their early teens, so it's natural they get distracted easily.

Also, congratulations to Tim, Macron, Goad, and the rest on their achievements. :)

While I agree with the fact that the numbers speak to a deficiency in the KSOE, I don't think you can call the concept a failure. Sarin, I concur that new members need instant gratification. It's far too easy to get bored in this club if there is nothing out there that interests you. The Envoys, at least the way I always saw it, were a means to an end. Not only were they responsible for getting members to a certain rank, it was also their responsibility to ensure that the general membership that they looked over contributed to the Clan/House as a whole. This is why I always encouraged the Envoys (who always seemed as though they had the inside track on new members) to create and run competitions specifically for those members that they were trying to get involved.

I would say though that we need to be careful not to sacrifice quality for quantity. In our efforts to raise retention, we should not rush members through the process. You tend to get shotty members when that happens. If there is a middle ground to be had, I wish the KCB/HM the best of luck in finding it.

That's not true, idiots still make it through the exhisting promotion system. Malisane right, as a 'new' Dark Jedi Knight but a vertran RPGer I found the DB somewhat lacking during my younger years but as time passed I was involved in more projects which occupied me more but not everyone is open to that option and besides who's gonna get a NOV write up a clan history or something along those lines.

Applicable competitions (those that introduce the members to the DB and the SW universe) should be offered in great frequency to the younger members, and I'm sure an automated system would be better, although I can see a great number dropping out then due to the shortcomings of the Equite to whatever promotion scheme.

Raken, you monster... 88 pages for a GJW storyline? Good effort, though in my opinion perhaps a little too much. Though, this could just mean we have one heck of a War brewing...

Can we have it bound in A5 paperback? Then I could read it like a little novel, might be easier that way :P

I would just like to add a comment from myself being how I am at the bottom of this totem pole. I have had nothing but good experiences with an Envoy I have crossed. Even some that are not in my own clan take the time to help me out a little bit here and there. So if you people want to cry about retention being low let me break it down easy on why its probably not going to get any better no matter what you do. Back in our days growing up life was much mroe slow paced and we had to use our imagination so joining the Brotherhood and doing some RP stuff is easy and enjoyable. But these kids of the modern generation probably just put in google dark jedi came across this site and didn't even read what it was about before joining up and got the shit scared out of them when they realized they would have to rp and its not all about playing video games and oh Heaven forbid they have to work for a rank with no "I win button" or no fast track to be "Uber Loot J3DAI KILLAZ" ot how ever that whole leet speak stuff goes. Why stick around this club when they can play JA and Jo elsewhere with no need to write stories about their fictional characters history and take some tests in the academy. so Take my advice and ignore those stupid numbers and just be proud that at least some member make it to the higher ranks. After all I thought becomming a Jedi was supposed to be hard and not many people will make it.

ACO Yeldarb Vohokou

Yeldarb raises a valid point, these days it's harder to keep younger peoples attention they're interested in World of Warcraft and Xbox 360s and Nintendo Wiis and Turkey Twizzlers it's natural in the post prequel days it's going to be harder to retain new members because right now there isn't the same publicity there was two years ago. It's not anyones fault.

Remember everyone, discussions like this are for the message boards, not the comments section. I set up a topic for all of you to continue (aren't I nice?). It's right here:

http://www.darkjedibrotherhood.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4439

Please continue discussion there, but continue to post all the congratulations, etc stuff here.

For slice's sake, the people have spoken Kir, just accept that the comments section will be used in this manner :P

Just a bit of clarification:

My comment about the Society of Envoys being a failure is not an attack on individual Envoys. My comment is directed at the Envoy system and the lack of success it has had since it was created. The KCB is a meaningless position because they have no authority or influence on the Clan promotion systems. They do not have the ability to fire or even appoint envoys from within a Clan nor would our Consuls ever relinquish their promotion systems over to the KCB.

This is why the society fails. It is merely another form of bureaucracy that does not need to exist in the Dark Brotherhood. The individual envoys can do great work, but that work is directed by Consuls, not by the Society.

So, yes...I stand by my point. The Society as a whole is a failure.

Just a bit of clarification:

My comment about the Society of Envoys being a failure is not an attack on individual Envoys. My comment is directed at the Envoy system and the lack of success it has had since it was created. The KCB is a meaningless position because they have no authority or influence on the Clan promotion systems. They do not have the ability to fire or even appoint envoys from within a Clan nor would our Consuls ever relinquish their promotion systems over to the KCB.

This is why the society fails. It is merely another form of bureaucracy that does not need to exist in the Dark Brotherhood. The individual envoys can do great work, but that work is directed by Consuls, not by the Society.

So, yes...I stand by my point. The Society as a whole is a failure.

Sashar - nope, sorry, I'm going to continue to enforce the rules :) Plus I just think people need a little prodding and help and then it will become natural for everyone, the discussion on the MBs is going along quite nicely now.

Hopefully we will have a coding solution to this eventually.

Yes, some prodding will remove the habit of years.
Oh, wait :P