seriously...wtf?

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seriously...wtf?

Ok -- I'm going to say all this once, and if you don't hear me this time, I'm through with you. This goes for everyone in the Brotherhood:

QUIT COMPLAINING ABOUT USELESS CRAP

This crap about the PA is just the last straw in a completely useless chain of people complaining about the most mundane NON-ISSUE bullcrap that I have ever had to deal with in the DB.

McKENNA IS NOT GOING TO HARM THE PA. Why the HELL do you people assume that any time the DC does ANYTHING that we have bad intentions? Huh? When have we EVER gone out of our way to harm a portion of the DB that we have been trying to make successful? Huh? DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE NEGATIVE? Jesus.

I am SORRY that McKenna's post wasn't clear about our intentions. He was more in character than perhaps merited, but SERIOUSLY. CALM DOWN!

All of you that have emailed me and commented and posted about doom and gloom need to straighten your heads out. I was confronted with a situation in which the TOP 2 people in the PA resigned within a day of eachother and I'm not supposed to have my guys step in and do a little recon before we appoint someone new? Goat and McKenna are going to find out what the hell is wrong with the PA and see how we can fix it. That's it. It has nothing to do with playing the game, and you DON'T need to know how to play the game to be able to resolve COMMUNICATION issues.

I've heard that this is a "DC power play" and an "effort to kill off the PA once and for all." Jesus Christ! We gave the PA society status, we allowed them to give medals, we made message boards, gave them web space, gave them positions on the DC. I'm sorry but -- in my humble opinion I think it's time the PA stops calling us the "web-DB" and starts trying to be a part of the club. I've run out of ideas.

And this isn't just the PA. When something happens, and when someone says something, DON'T ASSUME THE WORST CASE SCENARIO! Why that is so necessary for some of you is completely beyond me.

THE DC IS ON YOUR SIDE!!!

Those of you who think otherwise should reconsider what in the world you are doing here.

Jac

the "web-DB" is angry and scary : (

...I've never seen Jac pissed...lol

I don't know what you guys have been saying to him, but it must have been some serious shit if he's this angry.

Jac, right on man. :P

The DC is here to help keep the structure of the Dark Brotherhood in place, as for the WEB-DB that is a term that separates members that are in SWG, we can fix that if we require are guild members to join our DB here first before they can be accepted as guild members it only takes 5 minutes, everyone that ive recruited i make sure that they join here first before having them guilded. I would suggest that we require that all SWG DB members join the our Data banks in order to remain in the guild that way we can avoid any further separation or misscomseptions.

While I generally like that idea, there is one small problem with it. Initiates are not true members, so we'd have to require those members to pass the Test of Lore to be able to join the PA. And I don't know if the acceptance for doing that would be too high among a group who only wants to play SWG.

(There's been some discussion about this issue before, without a conclusive result.)

That is a terrible idea, Raidoner. As Kaiann said, they are Initiates and not true members. The DB SWG PA would be a complete and utter failure if the people who joined had to complete and pass the test of Lore.

Noone would want to join if they had to do a written test, the DB PA would just lose members. It's better to just let them join, and slowly but surely subtly recruit them into the ranks of the DB. If nobody joins, hey, at least you have an active PA. If people do join, all the better.

cowers in fear from the wrath of the great and terrible Jac ^_^

Seriously though, good call. The course of action taken by the Dark Council was the most logical one in this particular case- if nobody is leading the PA because they both resigned, then the obvious thing is for McKenna to make a post saying that he's in command until a new Baron is appointed. Otherwise, you would all have run around like headless chickens squawking about how nobody was leading you, and that wouldn't have been good, hmm?

And jeez, give Goat some slack. He plays SWG, he knows how the game works, he's been an influential figure in the game (from what I know, anyway)... basically, from the whole Dark Council, I can't think of anyone more suited to being the Interim Inquisitor. (No offence to anyone on the Dark Council... you guys rock =D)

Stop being so damn negative. Personally, I am fully behind the DC- always have been, always will be. I sure wouldn't like to do one of their jobs at the minute- they put a shitload of effort into running this organization, so how frustrating must it be to come onto the domain and read a slew of comments critiscizing their leadership? Those of you who've been bitching...... if you did Jacs/Goats/McKennas job for... let's say a week... you'd probably crumble under the pressure. Cut the dudes some slack!

Peace out. I'm going to stop before this turns into an epic, fifteen page Goat comment ^_^ And go t3h Jaczor!

Well I did suggest a week or so ago that the DBPA introduce a recruitment program that involves something along the lines of a two week trial period, attendance at a guild hunt and a small in game donation respective of their overall level and earnings. That itself would forge the basis of the Test of something for the SWG players at the Shadow Academy, after all, we have Krath, Obelisk and Sith versions, so theres actually little harm in a SWG related version- as it's just the same as a test that requires you to win a Cluster of Fire or something.

However, the members of the DBPA didn't like that idea.
So no, that won't happen.

Don't say we don't try though...

We have a message board for a reason, folks :p

I don't consider people who join the DB PA only real DB members, yet they inflate the member count. Of COURSE they should have to do the SA tests, if they want to join the DBPA, they should have to be prepared to do the stuff the other, non-SWG DB members do to join.

Blinks Ummm I am confused. How can the DC power play itself? Who would they power play against? They are the leaders of the Brotherhood. Blinks

I would complain if they DIDN'T get involved when a part of the Brotherhood was having problems...So whats the problem. They stepped up and took the responsibility that they should have and are working to make a part of the DB that didn't function so well work better for OUR enjoyment. Isn't that WHAT they are supposed to do when that happens...

Oh, oh, oh, I wanna power play!

Bah, I missed it >:P

Thanks for the support guys, but I'm not a martyr. Just retiring because school is starting up real soon. My grades have already suffered since I've taken over the DBPA. Thats the same reason Spears is retiring. I offered him my position in private before I left, but with school, his job, and web-DB work (I don't know what else to call it Jac) he has little time for SWG.

Kelric. "other DB work" would have done. As would "Clan and Shadow Academy work" :)

Technically you're playing SWG over the Internet anyway. So wouldn't that also make it the 'web-DB'? - Just an issue of poorly chosen semantics. Sorry guys, I just had to say that heheheh

Not to drag the Issue here, but people that do invest the time and money into SWG are Star Wars fans like us and why not offer them a chance to check out our great gaming club? I for one never knew how much I liked Star Wars till I began to play the video games back in the early 90's. I re-discovered the comics and the new stories and characters, thus making SWG a chance to all fans make up their own chapter in Star Wars while interacting with other SW fans, so I ask why not require new guild members to have to do the same as all regular DB members? after all we are the same DB? are we not?

I would like to re-iterate how F*ckin retarded this arguement is

I think its BS that spears locked the topics, guess we'll just resort to this. Whats the point of a message board if you can only voice your opinion up to a point.

Lamer.

~Shen

I locked that one topic because it was way to hot for anything good to come from it. A new debate topic has been started so feel free to post there. Alot of this has been blown way out of proportion. That is one thing Goat, Nik and myself all agree on I would add Mckenna to that list but I haven't talked to him and do not wish to speak for him. The PA needed some change and that is going to happen, and this time it will start with some louder voices then either Nik or myself had. There is really no need to argue about any of it anymore. Give the changes some time and see what happens, after all the aim is to make the PA and the entire DB better. More arguing will only slow that down.

this argument is f*cking retarded.

the reason why we use the term "Web-DB" is because lot of individuals that are in the DBPA are not necessarily in the DB. In other words, the DBPA recruits people from outside the DB.

"Web-DB" is used to distinguish between the Dark Brotherhood Organization and the Dark Brotherhood Player Association. At present, it is possible to be in one, and not in the other.

This is a necessity, because the location of our player city, requires that we maintain 55 citizens, in order to keep our shuttleport. Without the shuttleport, people would have to walk or drive a considerable distance to and from our city (I believe its around 6 kilometers which takes like 6-7 minutes even on a landspeeder)

The term "Web-DB" is not in any way derogatory or indicative of the DBPA's desire to be seperate from the DB. We refer to the PA as DB, and the DB as Web-DB, to avoid confusion among new recruits. DO NOT BLOW THIS MISUNDERSTANDING OUT OF PROPORTION.

Furthermore, the DBPA never asked for McKenna's help, nor did it ever need his help. His job is to enhance our ability to have fun in SWG, and if he's unable to do that, then he needs to butt out of our business :P

I dont give a sh*t what anyone says, but the Dark Council's only job is to make sure we're having fun. Not bark orders at everyone, or get pissed off when they cant control aspects of the DB, that dont even need to be regulated :P

No offense guys, but you need to chill the f*ck out, theres absolutely nothing wrong with the DBPA as it is now, it doesnt need to be made any better than it is now. Because quite frankly, I dont know a single person, aside from myself, that isnt having fun playing SWG :P

Spears to me its not BS! your a great leader and a great friend! your loss to to the DBPA is a huge step back in our progress in my eyes, specially after all you have done for all us new members DB and non-DB alike, i only wish you the best of luck with what ever path you choose in the game and remember that you have a true friend with Raidoner Tang'va no matter what path you choose to take! I do remember my friends and remain loyal to them specially to you Obbroc!

Wow, things really went to hell in a hand basket since I left....ya'll got all prickly and stuff.

=)

Don't read too much into Spears looking the topic, I more or less asked him to do that as I don't have moderators access to the forum. It was the same five or six people arguing and it was going around in circles so it was hardly achieving a lot.

As for the term "web-DB", the arguments pointless, so we should all move on.

That term won't be in existance much longer as the new Baron will be dealing with further integration of the two units, meaning that all new recruits will go through the Shadow Academy like everyone else.

They won't like that? Tough. I know a lot of Jedi Knight players who'd feel the same way, but they still take the effort to complete the exams.

It's possible we'll make a specialised course to deal with explaining the interaction between the DBPA and the DB so they don't take the regular Test of Lore. In a way I feel it would be better off for both worlds if they understood us more and realised their place in the greatest scheme of things and the DB.

That is really fucking stupid. Goatham, I really have to question your intelligence here. I don't mean offense by that, but you have to look at the facts.

The SWG PA will DIE if you force all new SWG PA recruits to go through the Shadow Academy. It will die a horrible death. The DB as it stands now do not have enough members to upkeep a decent city, they HAVE to recruit outside to be an effective organization.

"If they don't like it, tough"? This is a Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game, NOT Jedi Knight. It is an entirely different game of an entirely different genre. It is nothing like JK, it is nothing like XvT, it is nothing you know anything about. I've been told that you have played SWG, but if so then you must not know much about it or MMORPGs in general if you're going to force new PA members to complete Shadow Academy Tests.

They call it the "web-DB" for a reason as to avoid confusion among the masses in the DB PA. A MMORPG-DB Unit will NOT be a success if members are forced to go through the Shadow Academy. Take note that the people recruited WITHIN SWG and OUTSIDE the DB (web db, its a simple term the SWG players use to avoid confusion, as i've said before...), aren't official members of this Dark Brotherhood. They do not take part in a House or Clan, nor do they WISH to take part in a House or Clan.

If you don't like it, tough...my god, you're dumb lol...If you forced every SWG PA member that was recruited within SWG to do Shadow Academy Tests, they would simply leave the group. The PA would die, and it would fail. All because of you. This is a 100% certainty, Goatham, you're going to kill the DB PA if you do this. I'm not talking out my ass, I've played alot of MMORPGs, I know what I'm talking about here. Khobai (although very...blunt about these things :P) knows what he's talking about too.

I don't mean to disrespect the Dark Council here, I really don't, but you're making these decisions without any sort of knowledge of the actual situation. Who on the Dark Council plays SWG with the PA? One of you? Are you guys really fit to make this kind of decision? Don't you think you should at LEAST look into it a bit, first?

There are 3 things that will happen in this scenario, and none of them are GOOD.

  1. The members forced to take SA Tests to stay in will simply leave the group. The DB PA will lose its city. The DB PA will lose interest, and eventually die.

  2. The members forced to take SA tests will leave the group, and members of the DB PA, who would be fed up with your retarded ideals, would probably leave with them. They'd remain active members of this DB, but they'd just go form their own PA, not ran by the DB.

  3. The members of the DB PA would simply ignore you, call you a dumbass, and move on with their happy lives, not forcing anyone to take tests (you can't really make the SWG Non-DB members take them lol). This would upset the balance in the chain of command (although perhaps that would be for the best if these are your kinds of ideas...FORCING shit like this upon members who don't want to do it), and would lead to alot of upset people.

Your job is to make the SWG PA fun. Taking SA Tests is not fun. Period.

Blah, forget about it all guys. The DC made this decision, so this is what theyre going with so theres no point in arguing. If I could remove that comment, I guess I would. Not that I retract anything I said, it's just pointless, useless, and a waste of time for everyone.

But what I will say is this...as long as the people in the PA are having fun, I don't see why we'd force non DB members that are part of the PA to take SA tests. Simply because noones getting recruited into the DB from the PA (outside members, recruited to the PA from within)...that shouldn't matter, as long as these Dbers are having fun.

Some people have argued to me that I don't play SWG with the PA, and they're correct. I did play SWG before, I've played other MMORPGs extensively, and I'm a member of the DB so I figured I could voice my opinion. But whatever, you're right I don't play SWG with the PA.

Whatever decision the DB PA members support, is the way to go. It's all about them having fun. So, if the majority of the DB PA (not the ones recruited within SWG, heh...) are all for this, then so be it. But if they aren't then this is a flawed decision. That's all I'll say about that heh :P

I will say again, as it appears people are incapable of reading.

I am not in charge. These are not my plans. I am doing as told.

If you wish to bitch then please direct it in a civilised manner to the person who is in charge, JAC. I am not wasting my time dealing with problems.

I am here to fill an empty role. I am not here to take slack. If you all persist with insulting me I will resign and the DBPA will be shut down.

I do not have time to deal with this bullshit. I am Sith High Warrior, I am doing this out of the kindness of my heart right now. If you all persist with irritating me I will stop helping. If I stop helping there will be nobody in game right now to co-ordinate. If there is nobody to co-ordinate the DBPA will collapse and will be closed.

You may not like these changes, but tough. Most of you people bitching are not even members of the DBPA so have no right whatsoever. Every member I have spoken to directly relating to the future of the DBPA has supported what I want to do. Baron Spears worked to push through the EXACT same changes during his period as Baron.

If you do not like that, then the DBPA is clearly not the place for you. Seeing as how none of you are in the DBPA then it not only is not the place for you, this argument is not the place for you either.

And this discussion ends HERE before I get angry.

I'll have having Jac close this comments thread later today, it's gone beyond a joke. You people all clearly have no idea what you are talking about, as evident from the fact that you all seem so eager to blame me directly.

Seeing as how I am here to COLLECT INFORMATION FOR JAC and do nothing more there is no reason whatsoever to blame me. Doing so shows your ignorance of the situation. As of such I no longer have the time to waste my breath discussing matters that are suited for the MESSAGE BOARDS NOT THE COMMENTS THREAD.

Therefore this thread will be closed.

Anyone who posts a reply can expect to be meeing the Chamber of Justice soon. If you want to discuss this issue further, by all means voice your oppinion IN THE RIGHT CHANNELS ON THE MESSAGE BOARD.

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