Seriously, if you're thinking about changing Orders, read this. Since the time that the Brotherhood split from our alliance with the Emperor's Hammer, the way we think, and act has been undergoing changes. Previously, each Order was "restricted" to participating in a certain way; that is, Sith were pilots, Obelisk were ground-pounders, Krath were writers. Or, Sith (TIE, XvT, XWA), Obelisk (JK, JO, JA), Krath (writing). This no longer applies and strictly. Some people adhere to this, others do not. Those who adhere to this do so of their own accord; you do not have to have flight games to be Sith, write to be Krath, etc.
There are those who would prefer to return to this mode of action. Sime people believe that it is easier, and makes more sense to have the DB with "Order Restrictions." As the DB has evolved, Orders have meant different things. I know several people who were here back before there were Clans, or even Houses before them. Some of these people remember when Sith were members who had memberships in both the Brotherhood and the Emperor's Hammer; the Krath were the members who were simply "DB-exclusive."
The point of all this is, the DB is still undergoing changes, both structurally and cosmetically. So many people still see references to the Sith needing to have flying games, and don't want to be "pilots." I still see Order change requests of people wanting to "Play Jedi [whatever]," and "don't want to be a pilot, or write about that." No matter how many times I've said this, or tried to respond to these kinds of transfer requests, I still see them. I'd ask for people, especially Envoys, and those whose job it is to familiarize members with how we do stuff, to inform people of this.
Honestly, I can't get to every member, and say, "Hey, guess what. This is how it is." So, again, especially to the Envoys who help new members adjust, and to leaders in general, a little help? Thanks much.
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The point is Saitou, the Sith aren't pilots. Individual people may have their Sith characters as pilots, or their Obelisk, or Krath characters as pilots, etc., and so on, and so forth. People are still working under the assumption that you have to have the flying games, and that (in lieu of that) you have to be a pilot. It's all bullshit. The point is, your character can be whatever you want fictionall, no matter what Order you're in. See?
If the requests were, "Hey, I just want my character to be an Obelisk/Krath," I'd have no problems whatsoever, and I'd be reacting exactly as you are. That's not what the requests are, for the most part. Get my drift?
If Orders are not so strict anyways... just let them hop around. What does it hurt? :P
From a role playing perspective it would be foolish to let people change orders as often as they do. When, in any game system, can a 3rd level Wizard decide they'd rather be a Fighter and have the stats/abilities just magically transfer over? Never.
The DJB is working towards integrating a RPG system. With this, your order could determine special skills or benefits over another, thus making Order Hopping a giant headache for everyone. As it is, Krath can play any games they want & Obelisk and Sith can write poems and stories til their fingers bleed - so there's no reason to order hop for those.
Perhaps after the roles of the orders are defined in relation to the RPG system people may want to reconsider which of the three they wish to support. Until then, stay what you are.
Well said BF. Everyone should listen hard to what BF has said as I couldn't have said a truer word myself.
The main problem Saitou isn't people switching... its why they switch... as a lot of people still submit transfers for reasons like "I don't have the flight sims so cant be Sith" or "I dont like my character being a pilot" or "I just bought JA so dont want to be a Krath anymore as I want to play".
If people just want to switch for some random feeling, sure, thats fine, but lots still feel they have to switch if they want to play something or write a certain thing... its those stereotypes we're trying to erase, and we can only achieve that if new members aren't being confused with mixed messages.
People might ask "why?" but you only need to think about implementing new games. If we said "Battlefront 2 is going to be a Sith game" you'd get lots of people transfering Sith to play it... unnecessarily, so it wouldn't help. Its because new games aren't being assigned any Order-alignment at all really that we need to try and get out of peoples heads the stereotypes of the past. Theres just too much stuff to do between writing, the ACC, RPG, Allegiance, XWA, JA, BF, EAW, JO and so on for people to get mixed up with an Order-restricted misconception.
The big problem though is structural and psychological. The most constructive members tend to be the ones loyal to their unit who work hard to make things better. People who hop about to "be where the fun is at" they might personally have a better experience but its the people who stick with a Clan, a House, or an Order even during the bad times that keep things working and help to make the whole club a better place.
Battleteams also tend to still be Order-restrictive to assist in House management, so people swapping Orders causes all kinds of confusions when people end up moving Battleteams all the time- confusing their Battleteam Leaders, moving them away from friends etc possibly even resulting in a whole bunch of friends also swapping Order to go with them.
Saitou, I think you missed the point. It's not, "Don't hop around." It's, "Hey, you don't need to hop around because of a game platform." That's the point. I keep seeing requests that say "[whatever] Order is better for me because I don't have the flying games, don't want the flying games, and I'm not a pilot, nor is my character." I'm not a pilot, I don't consider my character a pilot, and I'm the SHW. Get my drift? It doesn't hurt if people want to be Sith, or Obelisk, or Krath. What they want, and choose, is what they want and choose. I'm simply trying to clear up a myth that's still being believed.
Ok, that sounds good to me. If they are doing it for sheer reasons of platforms, it may sound unnecessary. However, if they view Sith as a pilot or such... it sounds like an RPG element. I'd let them have their whim for now so long as they arent abusing it.
I think one of the simplest things to do would be to remove the Order association with the Tests of Skill (Wisdom [Krath], Endurance [Obelisk], Agility [Sith]).
I've noticed before that a lot of Apprentices get to the Test of Skill, go to do their Order's one, say the Test of Agility, if Sith, and then go "I dont have the games so cant do this... I need to switch Krath and take the Test of Wisdom instead".
Which is a major problem as, even though you can take the test of a different order to qualify, common sense would imply most people feel obligated to do their Order's one. I've noticed before this have big problems with gamers who end up Krath just because the Test of Wisdom was the only thing they could do because they weren't an JA or XWA player but a RC, or BF, or Allegiance player or something.
As the references are gone from the join form, it seems to be really only the stereotype stuck in old member's heads causing this. And I know for a fact that some people try to get their students to switch to their Order for gaming/writing reasons. I wonder what's the point in that.
No, I don't think it's just that, Arania. I'm thinking there's possibly vague references to it in the Shadow Academy, and possibly other places. At the very least, a lot of the Sith tests focus on the flying games, and such. That's one of the reasons I want to revamp the Sith Order studies, but that's a slow process that will take work.