Lots of great info and thank you for taking the time to answer the questions as detailed as you did... goes back to ground on the system update

"Our website will host a secret." When? :P

It's a secret? Nice report, boss man.

Nice report!

The Taken King has already been released on Xbox One... A lot of us did the 11-17 gigabyte download last night.

Awesome report!

YOU GET A SACRAMENTAL AWARD, AND YOU GET A SACRAMENTAL AWARD, AND YOU GET A SACRAMENTAL AWARD!

Awesome work, everyone. You all deserve it.

"... the people who solve the game will be immortalized in our fiction in various and cool ways."

I'm just picturing Sarin cackling at his keyboard as he kills people off. :P

Congrats to everyone!

Metagame you say?

Ready Player One

Awesome! Congrats everyone! Panda Prophet. Heh. :P

Down with pandas!

Up with mini-skirts!

Excellent work all around! Congrats to all the award/promotees!

Congratulations to Howie and Aabs, and the others receiving their well-deserved awards :)

Regarding Elder promotions, it is something I'd love to earn some day, but its more or less a pipe dream until I get my coding qualifications, I believe. Apart from my work on CS2.0, I haven't done much work above the Clan level - which is, ultimately, one of the main things I believe that are looked at. Still, always up to help with fiction and wiki things while tackling my own work on Sins and Space.

Howie is no longer DJM? This seems unnatural. Anyways congratulations to everyone who got promoted or got a medal!

Now I know you said ranks won't change much and you mentioned your reasoning for this on telegram the other day. You said the reason for Lieutenant being at the JM3 level instead of the JM4 level was because Lieutenants are just enlisted people with college, I mean, that may be true in real life in the US, but I don't see how it transfers to DB terms where, unlike the real world, you don't enter the group directly as a Lieutenant. Here you work your way up to it instead, so to me at least it would still make more sense for the rank to be at JM4 making the rank seem as significant as it does for the force using orders.

Also, your recommendation for Aabs's promotion says you're promoting him to Grand Master. :P

rofl. I'm not promoting him to Grand Master.

Damn thats alot of big awards and promotion, congrats to all!

Also I was wanting to get one from Julian Glover (General Veers) and Peter Mayhew (Chewbacca) but they were charging big boy bucks for me to do that this year. Ive got no problem approaching these people and asking for the autograph and telling them what its for. Gets word of us around and when the casual person see's that we have celebrities who are aware of us it makes us seem more desirable to join! Ive already got the wifes permission to get a few more next year, and Im hoping it will be a big year coming off of the release of Ep. 7.

Poor Howie, poor poor Howie.

Congrats to Howie, Aabs, Xen, Mav, Slags, Jac, Monty, V'yr, Kalen, Arden, DS, and Wally!!

Lots of interesting information throughout this report. Pretty sweet!

Aiden, what about pandas in mini skirts.....

Congratulations all awardees.

Nicely done boss

Go Steelers as the stomp.and deflate more thsn Brady's balls Thursday

Sorry Brim... Steelers are gonna get rocked. Go Pats!

Congrats to all the awardees, except Howie. Pandas earn no love.

Boo to the PC being the official platform for BF. Does that mean everyone will get it on the PC and I'll have nobody to play with on the PS4?

Get it for whatever platform is most available to you. If you have a PS4 and not a capable PC, go for it. It's still supported, and will still earn clusters. The "advertised" platform will be PC, which does make sense considering that most members have a PC capable of running modern games at the lowest settings (at least). Chances are, there will be a good portion of PS4 gamers getting the game on that platform if their computer doesn't compare to the graphics of the console of their choice.

I am getting Battlefront on Ps4, but understand why PC was chosen. Awesome report!

Quick question to see if I'm reading those graphs correctly - we haven't promoted anyone into the Equite ranks this year?

Anyone who joined in 2015 hasn't reached Equite this year. The graph is based on the year a member joins and then shows how far those specific members have gotten in the DB by their rank. I'm sure we've had some people promoted to Equite this year, but they were from members who joined in 2014 or earlier

I think it's people who joined this year haven't reached Equite ranks yet?

Now that everyone's had a chance to congratulate everyone on their hard work, I wanted to address this:

3) Is 12 Elders out of the past 10 years of join fair? What about 0 Elders out of the past six years of joins? I don't know if it is fair and we can probably look at a lot of variables that play into those numbers. Have the members performed at Elder levels? Have we been stingy with promotions? Are people confused and suck in the Equite Ranks? What do you guys think?

Rather than answer any of those questions specifically, I think there's a more fundamental question that needs to be clearly addressed. If I may, I'd submit that that question is something along the lines of: "Is the current criteria for elder promotion healthy and fair for the overall wellbeing of the Brotherhood?"

To answer that, I think we need to consider how the DJB stacks up against other online organizations, specifically when it comes to rank structure. It's hard to avoid comparisons to games, specifically MMOs when we think about the DJB rank structure. In WOW or TOR, or pick your MMO where your character has levels, as you level/rank, you unlock new powers/abilities. Your character gets more powerful. In these sorts of games, everyone who puts enough time in will get to max rank. Increasing in rank is very formulaic. Put in the time, grind out the activity (raids, whatever), and you'll get there eventually. The other way that you can get a ranking in games is when you're playing PVP, lots of games have a rankings leaderboard. Starcarft, Dota, LoL, Counterstrike, your ranking in those games is entirely merit based. They use an MMR matchmaking system to pit you against people of a similar perceived skill level using an algorithm that's very similar to what we use now for the ACC in your Elo rating. It's important to note that your ranking in these sorts of games provides you/your character no functional benefit. Being higher ranked doesn't make you more powerful in games, you don't get better equipment, more HP or whatever. It's entirely a signifier of how good you are at the game. Sometimes people that are higher ranks get cosmetic rewards, different skins for the guns or characters that let them show off their skill, but these don't as a rule provide functional benefit.

The DJB rank system doesn't follow either of those models. Or rather, it sort of follows a Frankenstinian (not sure if that's a word, but it should be) combination of the two. Journeyman ranks are strictly effort based. Do X, get promoted. Early Equite ranks allow you to get away with that as well. You can hit EQ1 or 2 with enough participation in enough activity. Additionally, our rank structure all the way up conveys benefits like an MMO. You get more skill points. Your character gets fictionally more powerful/important. But at around EQ2 or EQ3, there's a shift at how people get promoted. Simple activity no longer is enough. It's a shift to a merit-based system. To be in the Voice office, you can't just be a writer, you've got to be a good writer. To be in the Herald office, you can't just draw pictures, you have to be a decent artist. To be in the MAA office, you can't just have a good email turnaround, you have to sell your soul to the devil. To be in the Seneschal office, you've got to be able to code. To be in general leadership, you have to have leadership skills. In all of these things, you have to be good at something, and to be good at something means to be better than other people at it. This means that there are lots of people who just aren't cut out for these roles, and by extension, lots of people are functionally barred from reaching the higher ranks. We only have a few ways that a member can make an impact on a wide enough scale to get promoted to Elder, and the average person just isn't going to be good enough at one of them to get there. Even the positions that don't specifically require excellence in a particular niche (Clan leadership, MAA office, HM office) aren't numerous enough for everyone who wants one to get it.

Let's say I'm a random EQ2 or 3. What's the best way for me to get promoted? Find a position and apply for it. What if there's not one? Guess I'll just sit on my hands and wait 6 months. Now, I know that there's going to be a retort here that any member can take initiative and find a project that they can work on, and such things are just as important. That's absolutely true. But initiative of that kind just isn't a quality that's easy to come by any more than artistic talent is easy to come by (and members with such initiative tend to get recognized and swept into leadership in some form or another as well). Members realize when they've hit their practical ceiling, and that's the point when they tend to leave if they haven't made lots of friends here. Where should that ceiling be?

I don't know the answer to that, but my gut says it should be higher than about EQ3, which is what it generally feels like for most members. This is sort of exacerbated because we add real fictional power all the way you go up the tree. We're in a Catch-22 situation. If getting to Elder means something significant, not everybody can get there. If we change the requirements such that it's accessible to the majority of people, then it's not as meaningful of an accomplishment. Less than the elder tier specifically, it feels awkward that the requirements for how you get promoted drastically shift through the Equite ranks. Most members can cruise through up to DJK easily within a year, and then they will receive 2 or 3 if they're lucky more promotions in their entire DJB career. My suspicion is that this will be somewhat lessened with the launch of the possession system, as activity can still grant a meaningful reward no matter how high up you get, and merit medals will actually mean something.

I think the MMO analogy falls flat when we consider that in the Brotherhood, one does not need to be "max level" or max rank or "at their rank ceiling" (which I think is more EQ4 for everyone if they are willing to be active enough, even if they aren't great leaders or work on amazing projects) in order to participate in end game. In MMOs, the real game begins at max level. In the Brotherhood, "the real game" is pretty much available right away, but the way success in that game is measured changes as one "plays" more. I think that is OK, personally.

I do agree with Viv that things shift very dramatically at Equite in how you are promoted. I think one of the mistakes members and leaders make is that they assume that people just need to wait out TiG. The reality is that time in grade is an absolute minimum of what the MAA office thinks it takes in terms of time to do all the things needed to hit Equite for the most active, most qualified member. Most people are not that member, but they can get closer to that goal by being more active and the like through the process. That may be one area we need to look at... along with other aspects of promotions/medals/etc.

I do think that medals/sacs do not have the same meaning to all members, and the CS serves to reinforce that promotions "mean more" than other types of awards. We've discussed alternatives and while I'd like to explore them, we have a ton of coding projects and so it is something for future consideration and not immediate work.

Adding on to what Mav said, it would be cool if there were bonuses available on the CS for gaining Medals. A highly decorated EQ2 may be "stronger" than a base EQ4 in a fight.....I don't know if things would get rapidly out of hand, but it might make medals more relevant and take some of the focus away from rank promotions.

First, I took the liberty of editing my promotion event to say "Dark Jedi Master" instead of "Grand Master" :P

Re: Equite promotions, there's definitely frustration with how promotions go from super clear checklists to "be active and we'll see." Mav is also correct about how MMO systems do not translate; everyone will not be an Elder. At least, that's the opinion I hold. The DJB isn't a race to max level. I think ranks should instead look like a bell curve skewed to the higher end (so a fast drop-off past the peak). The question is which rank do we want as the peak?

Time in grade, while a point of contention to discuss, is also not what keeps people from hitting the higher ranks. Typically, the only time TiG comes up in discussion is when a member is already active and leaders wonder if they're ready to promote. Those members, though, are the ones that WILL hit the higher ranks. TiG isn't stopping them. The dilemma is how to encourage other members to continue pushing up in rank, or if they should be getting promoted at all. Viv's example of an active member who just can't get into leadership and thus peaks at EQ2, I think, is the more prevalent example to ponder over.

My comparison to MMOs wasn't so much an analogy as it was a comparison to other internet activities that could compete with the DJB as a potential member's leisure activity. I don't think that we should adopt something where you can hit max level by participating in X competitions (where x is some stupid large number). I'm just saying that people use what they're familiar with as frames of reference. The DJB has a level system. MMOs have a level system. Your character in an MMO usually has skill trees that you spec out. The DJB has character sheets. It's a really easy leap to assume (from the perspective of someone who doesn't know better) that they should just be able to move up in the DJB in a similar way as they would in an MMO. The framework looks so similar, why wouldn't the mechanism work the same?

Again, I'm not saying this is how it should work, but the internet world we live in is shaped so heavily by MMOs, we have to consider them when it comes to thinking about these systems. Potential members only have so much free time. They're going to spend it doing whatever they get the most enjoyment from. Is our rank structure conducive to this? If a member thinks "well, I'd rather just play TOR" or whatever, then it seems like the answer is no (for that member).

one does not need to be "max level" or max rank or "at their rank ceiling" (which I think is more EQ4 for everyone if they are willing to be active enough, even if they aren't great leaders or work on amazing projects) in order to participate in end game.

I disagree, at least when it comes to fiction writing. Granted, we've gotten a lot better over the years, but it still takes until JK (which is what... 2-3 months at the earliest?) before we assume a member has a baseline competency with the single most iconic weapon in the SW universe. People join clubs like this and think "I want to make a powerful Sith Lord!" and you objectively can't, by our standards for something like 10 years (or if you do, we'll yell at you for writing unrealistically). People just don't have that long of a timespan in mind when they think about joining a club for fun.

This isn't the only motivating factor, but it is a factor. And again, I think a lot of the changes that we've made over the last year or 3 have been in the right direction to alleviate some of these problems.

I usually don't say a whole lot even in real life I'm a quiet person. But I thought why not on this. I know I'll never make it much farther than I am now. I play TOR that is what I like to do. I have 8 lvl 60's none are in either of our guilds why? I don't play for awards I enjoy playing that's all that matters to me I enjoy being a member of DJB but once it stops being fun and all you worry about is rank what's the point in the game?