Cooool!

Just completed this. AWESOME! Super fun to take and loaded with really good info. ToR and Non-ToR players should have fun with this!!

Haven't done a SA course since... dunno how long but I got bored after 12 questions, and I play ToR all day lol Some questions do require way to much writing, it feels like an uni paper sometimes.

I've seen the answer key, and none of them really do...

Anyone see my comment? Looks like it vanished? Did we start deleting threads that we don't agree with?

Nope Sarin, don't see any other comment from you but this one.

Haven't seen any from Sarin, then again I haven't been checking this before now lol

Yes. The comment was not directed at any individual within the DJB, but following the train of thought put forward by Dark Adept Khan. If a TOR player finds this course to be tedious, that sort of feedback is beneficial to the process. It allows members of the SA to rethink what exactly drives membership to participate in activity. It also offers an opportunity to think about what activities drive new members to join our club. I believe you would be hard pressed, outside of the SA staff, to find many people that find the Shadow Academy to be worth the energy to take the tests (be honest here, if courses were not required for promotion, how many would truly be taken?).

I'm not saying the SA needs scrapped, as Muz stated, our club is complicated and courses that provide guidance for new members have great utility. But, refleshing websites, switching out graders, and creating new courses is a thing the past five Headmasters have all done and none of them have been able to increase test taking (without artificial measures, such as promotion requirements, or Vendettas). This repeat of history is another aspect that our club can grow from. Rather than repeat, we should think about what drives current members, what brings in new members, and what existing organizations can do to promote those two topics.

29 questions on a TOR test that flow in the manner of the digital instruction booklet is not going to help the DJB in any real way. And as Khan pointed out, it is really not going to help out our current TOR Players either. Instead of 29 stale paper questions, why not run the course as an in game tutorial? Why not have the grader and assistant graders run new members through flashpoints? Grade them on flashpoint preparedness (repaired? stims? medpacks? watched the fights on youtube?)? Teach them how to be better at raid awareness? This sort of course would not only have utility for our club, but it would create an in game training tool that make the Dark Jedi Brotherhood Guild more productive and better prepared for gaming. It would also set a precedence in TOR not really seen (any other clubs running in game training scenarios?) and would give the DJB another leg up on recruitment.

No disrespect at Araxis, Fremoc, or the HM is implied here. We have always done things the way they are being done now, I'm just pointing out that it might be time to grow beyond what we have done and start thinking about what we should be be doing.

Sarin

Haven't finished this exam yet, tried to run through it in a spare 15-20 min but still need to do some digging for a few answers. I do have a suggestion related to two questions. If a new TOR player does the research to get the answers to questions 26 and 27 they are kind of spoiling part of the side storyline. Both of these events were surprises to me when I found them, which I thought was awesome. Maybe reconsider calling out these two things and go with some other equivalent question?

Deleting former GM's constructive criticisms shows weakness of character. Don't be weak.

As for the course: well-intentioned and poorly executed. Knowing the name of the announcer in Huttball is categorically useless. The effort to explain raid group composition is better received and more in line with what I'd expect to see out of a project like this. Focus your efforts there in the practical and leave the trivial to the trivia.

Great course, although the two I would take out or replace are the two questions that relate to the final bosses in the Foundry and False Emperor (I had to guess on this one, as to avoid googling a potential spoiler).

This would have been better off being used in something like the Grind Path down the road, or simply scratched until it flowed easier. I find myself oddly agreeing with Sarin, despite being a former Headmaster. This just feels poorly executed, no offense to Frems or the SA staff. I also feel it lacks enough DB tie in information, at least in the boundaries that has been the SA's goal for the last 4 years. It's always good to see new content though.

Some edits have been made to the exam in keeping with some of the feedback that has been received. In the future, however, it'd probably be best to forward concerns on exams to the SA staff via email (As Halc did) as Ronovi and I don't make a habit of camping comment threads on news posts.

Really, guys? This is your welcome back gift after a nice weekend with my father? Really? :P

Okay, let's clear the air a little bit. First off, any comments that vanished into thin air - no one in the Shadow Academy is responsible for it. I didn't delete any comments, nor did Slagar - in fact, we do not have administrative access to delete any news post comments whatsoever. So either you timed out before posting, Sarin, or something happened with the site.

Now, I want to thank everyone for their feedback on the TOR exam. Every new exam is going to be a draft, no matter how polished up we make it. Perhaps it would've been wise of me to deliver the exam to the DC, in order for everyone to give his or her two cents on it. But as it stands now, we will happily accept feedback, negative or positive, regarding the exam.

However, I find some of the comments regarding the purpose, audience, and progress of the Shadow Academy to be somewhat disturbing. Therefore, I think we've learned two things: Perspective and patience.

In regards to perspective: Sarin - in your argument, you claim that without promotion requirements, not nearly as many exams would be taken. However, your claim does not explain why within the first 24 hours of posting sign-ups for the Dark Sage of Writing, over half a dozen DJB members signed up for a ten week-long, vigorous writing course. it does not explain the various messages that I've received thanking me for continually improving the Shadow Academy and providing exams that not only are interesting, but also assist members on a real life and Brotherhood level. Ergo, any statement that people are not interested in the Shadow Academy without promo requirements, in my experience and opinion, is unfounded. Second of all, you suggest an in-game tutorial in place of a TOR exam. The thing is, we already have that in TOR. The exam is just that extra assistance along the way, and from what I can tell, a lot of members approve of the exam.

Does that mean I won't listen to constructive criticism? Absolutely not. I am open to admitting I am wrong, and I am open to using suggestions to improve something introduced. But what older members have to remember is that for people who haven't been here for ten, eleven, twelve, or thirteen years - the Shadow Academy is new to them and it's exciting. Slagar and I are working to aim at that target audience - the members who love the SA and love to improve on it.

Next thing on the agenda: Patience. Sarin, if you have read any of my reports (which I'm sure you have), you've noticed that I take the time to list various upcoming projects for the Shadow Academy. These include the Shadow Academy Debate League (which will involve both competitions and exams), a new Critical Thinking Sage, and the Shadow Academy Games (working title). In the meantime, I have also plainly stated that the traditional upkeeping of the Shadow Academy will be maintained. This includes new exams (which are extremely important in helping the Academy grow), new staff (which is extremely important in maintaining the quality of the Academy), and new site structure (which is extremely important because it makes things easier for us to take care of). Since my appointment to Headmaster, we have:

1. Introduced nearly full course automation on the Medusa admin page. This allows us to directly edit exams without FTP. If that's not a big step in the right direction, I don't know what is.

2. Introduced two - yes, two exams to assist in new facets of the Brotherhood. This is important to establish our work regarding new creative outlets. Like you said, Sarin, creativity and new things in the Academy is key.

3. Rejuvenated the SA staff with Professors who take the grading turnaround time seriously, resulting in more members - yes, you heard that right - more members sticking around and taking exams. The number of exams taken, contrary to belief, has increased slightly since my appointment to Headmaster.

Here's the thing: this was all done in two months. Two months! That's right, people, I have been Headmaster for less than a quarter of a year. Projects are being worked on. We are using every resource we can to make the Shadow Academy stronger. We are, in fact, growing above and beyond the current establishment of the Academy. But things take time. This won't be all done tomorrow. This may not even all be done in a month. That's why patience is important.

Sarin and others, I respect you and admire your candor. Just remember that I am simply taking something that is already strong and polishing it up, all while adding more to it. Think of it as a car I'm tinkering with - painting jobs and polishing jobs are the easiest steps to take. The hardest task is upgrading the engine to an 8 cylinder instead of a 6 cylinder.

Any other questions or concerns can be directed to me and Slagar through e-mail. With consent from Muz, I am closing the comments.

Ronovi

...and the code just exploded in my face. In. my face. Let me try that again.

Here's the thing: this was all done in two months. Two months! That's right, people, I have been Headmaster for less than a quarter of a year. Projects are being worked on. We are using every resource we can to make the Shadow Academy stronger. We are, in fact, growing above and beyond the current establishment of the Academy. But things take time. This won't be all done tomorrow. This may not even all be done in a month. That's why patience is important.

Sarin and others, I respect you and admire your candor. Just remember that I am simply taking something that is already strong and polishing it up, all while adding more to it. Think of it as a car I'm tinkering with - painting jobs and polishing jobs are the easiest steps to take. The hardest task is upgrading the engine to an 8 cylinder instead of a 6 cylinder.

Any other questions or concerns can be directed to me and Slagar through e-mail. With consent from Muz, I am closing the comments.

Ronovi

I don't think comments can be closed, without deleting this important discussion.

That's right, I called this important. We absolutely need these kinds of discussions to help us all grow as a club, rather than stagnate. There are good points raised by both sides, and I think that now, we are able to build some middle ground with new perspective and help the Shadow Academy grow in value.

As to 'censorship' of comments, we don't know who did that. It could have been a site glitch, or not, but no one is coming forward to admit it (which is actually unusual). As I said, these kind of open and honest discussions are useful and important. Censorship limits points of view and gets people mired in their own ideas, which is no way to be. As such, I have directed those few who do have moderation access on comments to not use it.

Except on Tarax. :P

Hoo boy. Clarification. "Closing" the thread to public discourse is not asking everyone to shut up and back down. If you have any more to discuss and address regarding the TOR exam, the SA at large, or ideas for progress, you may privately direct them to me on IRC or e-mails. I better communicate that way, and it allows for discourse to be better managed without sifting through comments. So don't take it the wrong way - I'd just like to adjust the channel of conversation to a more controllable forum.