To sway or not to sway....


To sway or not to sway....

Good morning everyone,

Let's try this again...since my first post failed to go through.

A few notes for GJW Round II.

  1. There have been a significant amount of gaming complaints relating to swaying and other underhanded gaming tactics. The volume of these complaints have reached the threshold for warnings and gaming bans. Expect to see the DC keeping a close eye on gaming this round.

  2. Gaming Part II. It is extremely hard to prove cheating in gaming. It is even harder to prove if people do not come forward. If you believe your opponent is unfairly taking advantage of you, please report it. There are some technical measures we can look at, but we can't review shady play if we don't know about it.

  3. Muz, I, and the event coordinators encourage everyone to provide feedback during the GJW. We changed gaming this round specifically based on a series of round one complaints. But, I ask that everyone remember there are two sides to most arguments. You might hate hand drawn graphics, but a ton of other people requested it. In other words, you opinion is valued, but not always representative of our club at large.

  4. This is a GJW. Fair play and honesty are more important than winning. Don't sacrifice your integrity for a cluster of fire.

  5. The fiction will be out later today for Europe and tomorrow morning for North America.

  6. I should be up on all forms communication, to include mirc, later today. Thanks everyone and good luck in round ii.

Echoing what the big man said, re: Gaming:

IRC arguments are not the way of things post-matches. Shady play is also not worth it. If you see something, let us know (your respective Summit, the DC, ect). As leaders, we are here for you guys. Do not hesitate to ask us questions or bring up concerns. More importantly, being a good loser is almost as important as being a good winner. Don't forget we're all here for fun, ultimately.

Example: I absolutely loath that since I don't own (or want to buy) a joystick, that my only way to participate in gaming is to play Pazaak. While that may be the case, I will keep any negative thoughts to myself (I already told Val how he broke my heart), fire up Pazaak and do my mandatory games to get credit, and then will move on.

It's not worth actually getting upset over. But, feedback is important, just remember that the organizers of the events aren't doing things to personally spite or upset you. There is a fine line between constructive criticism and negative criticism. Again, if you have concerns, I'm sure the other Summit Leaders around the club would be more than happy to engage in side discussions and that the DC is always looking for ways to make things better going forward!

Thanks for the update, Sarin. Stay safe, looking forward to the next fiction!

Good luck everybody!

the restriction of only JA and TOR is what hurt alot of the gaming. Many folks don't either have those games or play it. I barely play TOR, especially since I can only get online 1-2x a week. I even had to make a lvl 15 character just to get some games in (0-4 against yacks)(technically 1-12 since I did win one round)

Was I beaten soundly? Hell yes. Was it unfair to go against an experienced Yacks? Hell no. it was actually fun. shows I don't know Jack, or this case, Yack.

I think the JA and TOR restrictions are OK and they should be in separate events. I average a 15 min/duel when I fight Nobilus. That means it takes us 45 mins to play just for for 1 Cluster of Fire. How much does it take for a longer game in Pazaak? I'm not against Pazaak but they should be in separate events especially it has luck involved when it is drawing cards. My 2 cents have been thrown.

Pazaak length depends on if your opponent is paying attention/ lag, I have had 12 matches take 2 hours before or 12 done in 15 min, really depends on you opponent and you and how fast you click next. 3 pazaak matches shouldn't take more than 5 min tbh

We could always do a gaming tournament sometime, so you're only playing particular matches at a certain time. Thus, whatever game it is in, you don't have to worry if that takes longer than another game.

That could also probably allow time to arrange for there to be a third party to watch if possible cheating is an issue.

Just an idea.

If your opponent makes 12 matches take two hours, then they're just an ass. :P

While I don't use the move myself -- I stick to red stance -- I do consider swaying and scissors to be different. How? While most of us older JA players consider each "sway" a "scissor" I've always tried to define scissors as a quick side to side move (i.e. no more than 2 slashes). Swaying, on the other hand, can be done up to 5 times and sometimes 6 (lots of damage). Why should scissors (2 sways) be legal? My definition of scissors is as fair as a double left downward combo in the red/strong stance. Go try it out, really fast movement that will cause the same amount of damage as a scissor (just about 0.3 seconds slower).

Rod and I did a massive chunk of gaming, and never once did an opponent use either scissors or swaying against me -- never heard Rod complain about it either. So it makes me wonder if some of you less experienced JAers even know what swaying is (no offense). I know a few moves done with both blue/light and yellow/medium stances that could be confused with swaying -- if the player doesn't know what swaying is. I might create a few instructional videos for this in the future so less experienced players know how to spot it. Lastly, in regards to swaying, it can be done an unlimited amount of times with both the dual sabers and saberstaff -- just so you all know -- so be sure to look for it especially when an opponent uses those weapons.

If you need to sway to win -- especially spam swaying -- please stop and learn how to Agni Kai like Frosty and I. It may take us 10 minutes to just get 1 kill, but at least we do it in glorious red/strong clashes on an epic scale (<3 Frosty, too bad our schedules didn't allow us to play more -- move to America). Also, I noticed that a lot of people, including myself, weren't apt to doing ToR duels. Yacks, I made a promise when I came back in December that I would train people in Jedi Academy. Of course, this was halted with the war and will resume afterward, but if you could do the same for lvl 15 duels that could spark some interest. I key smash and have no strategy in ToR duels unlike Jedi Academy. Just a suggestion.

Just because we are done with JA for this war, I will give some of you a few quick tips:

  • Always use red/strong stance -- it may be slow, but it will cause a ton of damage

  • Use a series of jumps for both offense and defense (you can start your swing just before you jump and mid-jump)

  • Patience, patience, patience (I got most of my wins from overly aggressive opponents -- why do you think it takes an hour for me and Frosty to do 3 matches?)

I've been playing JA in the DB ever since it came out and I still have no idea what swaying actually is...

Malik brings up a good point, a fair number of folks might not know what they're seeing, Could someone describe how to spot the technique, preferably with visual aids?

The restrictions on the games is difficult to maneuver. TOR is a game some people won't play because of the monthly subscription. JA happens to crash on bot windows 7 and windows 8. In my opinion, the two games don't happen to have good support to them.

TOR is Free to Play now with certain restrictions, but nothing that should be significantly detrimental to Level 15 duels. As for JA, I have the steam version and it hasn't crashed once, though I do play it in windowed mode with a resolution less than my screen's max on windows 7, so not sure what your problem is in that regard.

I honestly don't know what swaying is either, and I've been playing JA since the beginning. Personally, I've never been worried about this "technique". I'm more worried about people changing server settings for their own benefit and the like. I'm against the whole limiting of platforms as well, but at least this time around there should (hopefully) be a little less opportunity for people to bend the rules. And really, that's the bigger issue. A lot of people try to find technicalities in the rules, but breaking the spirit of the rules. While there is very little one can do about these people, it is still deplorable and I would wish all leaders across the club actually condemn these sorts of actions.

As for the graphics-thing...again, I don't know why there had to be any sort of specific "way" the graphic had to be done to count for placement. Look at it like fiction. We give a topic and people can write their fiction however they want, regardless of style. We don't tell people "You must write in 1st person" or "Must do this in 3rd person omniscient". The same should be done for graphics. We have a topic, and it is up to us to use whatever form of art we wish.

Good post!

"The same should be done for graphics. We have a topic, and it is up to us to use whatever form of art we wish."


So...why the hell should I participate in an event that requires me to conform to a specific style, if that style is not how I usually do said event? If I do graphics, I try to put enough effort into it to place (regardless of the final quality). I'm not going to keep spending time and effort doing the work if it won't even be considered for placement.

This feels like déjà vu from a Crusade round, and I believed that matter was settled. Is it just because the judges are too limited/lazy to consider a style not their own, or are they trying to force their style down people's throats again?

  • Platform Restrictions - Look, the DC work hard on these events and they can't please everybody. I like breaking up the platforms because it gets certain people out of their comfort zone and gives others a chance to shine. For gaming it got people playing platforms that normally aren't played as much. It it were open like in FL3 people would have just spammed Pazaak again yawn. I know people were upset over art, but why? What's the point of doing two rounds if you don't try something different outside of same old comp with new prompt. Photoshop ninjas got round 1, traditional artists got round 2.

  • Gaming Shadiness - Count me as one of the people who has no clue what swaying is. The 3 match min/max thing is a great (and overdue change) that eliminates some of the 'strategic' challenge acceptance behavior. As for the other shadiness, well none of that occurs in a vacuum and generally their friends or unit members see or hear something. Halc raises a valid point about leaders and well anyone for that matter having a duty to call people out when you see someone venturing into a gray area. Even something as simple as "That's a dick move brah, don't do it." could save a lot of grief and making gaming better for everyone.

  • "Be excellent to one another"

I know people were upset over art, but why? What's the point of doing two rounds if you don't try something different outside of same old comp with new prompt. Photoshop ninjas got round 1, traditional artists got round 2.

No one should "get" anything, is the point. The moment someone "gets" something, another person loses it. If someone draws something awesome by hand, and it's great for its style/medium, it should be considered for placement just as much as someone who splooged filters in Photoshop.

The judges should be able to differentiate one from the other and hold them up equally based on the effort and style that went into them, not try to cripple one because they're unable to do so. If it's beyond their ability to judge the different styles equally, then they shouldn't be judges. The membership shouldn't suffer for their blatant incompetence.

I think I'll break this down rq.

  1. Don't be a dick. It's the golden rule of gaming. You should know when you're being a dick. Otherwise you're a sociopath, and you should gtfo. (PS: That was me being a dick).
  2. Don't limit. Limitations breed injustice. Injustice breeds resentment. Resentment breeds people being dicks. (See #1).
  3. Don't cheat. This should be obvious, but apparently, the same people and the same problems keep making us point out what should be obvious. Also, this very much counts as: See #1.

The moment someone "gets" something, another person loses it.

By that logic why have prompts at all? Perhaps some members are better at depicting people while other are better at landscapes. Absent platform restrictions the prompts themselves limit. You can't have a prompt at all without inadvertently playing to someone's strengths and another's weaknesses. I get the frustration at not having your platform featured, I really do. I'm a pretty good Starcraft 2 player which is a Tier I platform that was available in FL3 and was not seen at all this time around. I'm not thrilled about it, but I get what Val was trying to do by breaking up the platforms.

The judges should be able to differentiate one from the other and hold them up equally based on the effort and style that went into them, not try to cripple one because they're unable to do so.

You're making a pretty big assumption here as to why the DC did what they did. I can't speak for the organizers but instead of assuming judicial incompetence (aren't the same people judging both anyway?) try giving them the benefit of the doubt that they were simply trying something different. If one or more the competitions pushes you out of your comfort zone that's hardly an injustice.

Where did we hear this before....

When I read this news post and all the comments, all I could think of was;

"Aren't we supposed to be having fun? What happened to that."

Complaining is fun for some people :P

Rhiann, please try to remember that some people have a hard time having fun when they're being told they can't compete as they want. Just because you do not understand their point of view doesn't make it wrong.

I never said it was wrong.

I dont careee!! im having fun even though i suck at gfx, gaming and fiction! Granted this is my first GJW, so it might wear off at later stages when it seems repetitive or whatever, but seriously, for this being my first GJW, ive gone 4/4 so far and i know for a fact i cant compete with about 2/3 of this community, but its just so much FUN competing and submitting for everything and getting a flawless participation score :)

I just picked up JA in the last two days of the first round, i lost all my matches, but i had fun trying it out. I might not ever play it again because people are much much much better than me, but being a part of that community however short it was, still made it fun for me!

Maybe people should just let everything go, and just remember why you are participating in the first place. Not to WIN, but to have a great time, the thrill of completing things and watching your clan blast through as a kick butt robocop terminator thing. I got into the GJW because my Clan/House were so hyped about it and pushing people to participate. Now, im glad i can be part of this and see people shine and come together as a community and just have fun!

hmm.... gaming so much to say and so much I could windge about, but instead I'm gonna not for once and say I thought the JA and TOR restrictions was a nice change. I thought maybe JA could a been more then 1v1 such as team or FFA or CTF but still ok.

This biggest thing that surprised me was a the lack of pople in TOR, a FREE, yess FREE FREE FREE game which some people still think they need to pay for when its FREE!!! and so easy to level to 15.

And I am also putting it out there that I will help gear and buy augments for anyone in game to help their duelling toon reach its potential and expect nothing in return but a few good old matches.

Swaying and or Poking in Jedi Academy is a touchy subject. One takes skill aka: aiming your light saber while the other requires a high sensitivity and little to no skill. Poking is the act of stabbing with the tip or maintaining contact with your blade in order to increase dmg output. Swaying (imo since there isn't really a true definition) is using high sensitivity in order to hit faster and or harder, essentially breaking the game in a way where it cannot accurately determine the true or proper value of a hit. For example. If I used a single swing with red stance and used a high sensitivity to create a 360 degree spin I can in turn hit multiple times with one swing. Wiggles create the same effect. That is considered a sway. If someone is spinning and twisting like Yoda whilst using the red stance, swaying is most likely the culprit.

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